April 16, 2012 By Christian Murray
Sunnyside and Woodside residents were stunned to learn that the punishment handed down to gropers is small.
Captain Terry O’Toole from the 108 Precinct told members of the United 40s Civic Association in Woodside on Thursday that most gropings were classified as “forcible touching” and were misdemeanors —punishable up to a year in jail.
“I don’t make the laws,” said Captain O’Toole, to an audience that thought the penalty would be more severe. “I just make the arrests.”
Perpetrators of these acts are often career criminals with long rap sheets with uncontrollable impulses, he said. Those who are caught are typically arrested on a host of other charges. However, in one recent case, the perpetrator is believed to be a homeless person.
Forcible touching according to state law is defined, in short, as: “the squeezing, grabbing or pinching of such other person’s sexual or other intimate parts.”
Liz Taylor, a local resident who attended the United 40s meeting, said afterward: “I think it is a disgrace that this is not viewed as a major crime,” adding, “It’s like the law says it’s no big deal.”
There have been at least seven groping incidents in Sunnyside and Woodside in the past eight months—at a time when there seems to be a wave of these sex attacks across New York City. Sex predators have been attacking women in Jackson Heights, Astoria and several neighborhoods in Manhattan and Brooklyn in recent months.
In those cases where violence is used for the purposes of “touching”, the district attorney is able to up the charges to sexual assault and other major felonies. However, that is dependent on the victim’s testimony and a host of other factors.
State Sen. Mike Gianaris, who has sponsored previous sex crimes legislation, said that New York state law, as a rule, is too soft on sex crimes.
“Sex offenders tend to be serial offenders,” he said. “Low level incidents on one day, wind up being extremely serious on another.”
As a general rule, “Legislation on sex crimes is always playing catch up,” he said.
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33 Comments
I don’t think that Sunnyside/Woodside is as safe as it could be and I warn women who are going out at night. We need more visible police presence near the bars and restaurants and also in the residential part of Sunnyside, in the Gardens area which is desolate. What are the chances of somebody witnessing a crime late at night on 39th Avenue? Very slim. And I do know of a woman who was followed around there at night and she told me it was scary.
If this predator does get caught the chances are that he does hav a lengthy record but unfortunately the chances that he will serve prison time s highly unlikely. If he s out on the streets now after having previous arrests chances are hel get a slap on the wrist again and b free to walk our streets again within 30 days. It s so sad that women are now afraid to walk alone on our local streets. Something really needs to b done to protect the people of Sunnyside.i personally would like to see cops walking the beat like they used to do in the old days. The 108 precinct likes to tell us what a SAFE neigherhood we live in!!! I hav news for them. It USED to b safe but unfortunately that s no longer the case.
These are painful times and a lot of terrible things are happening especially to young women whom predators like to target. Getting back to the topic at hand, if this creep is ever caught, it is possible that he already has a record and could have the book thrown at him. I keep thinking that groping leads to other crimes against women and children.
I think it’s the effect of pornography. It’s so available and in your face these days that some men can’t tell where the porno fantasy world ends and the real world begins.
@O’Shea You assumed way, way, way too much. You may mean well, but you speak about things you have no knowledge of.
Do I sound even a tiny bit like a sacrificial doe eyed young lamb? I thought I sounded like a raging tower of strength, to tell the truth. I’ve solved my problem. Men don’t bother me any more because I am not available for them. One time in the past ten years I took the subway into mid town for a week of professional training and again without my knowing it, a young man stood next to me for ten minutes masturbating. I only knew it when he moved his shopping bag away so I could see his erection erupt. I was shocked and sickened but I looked him right in the eye and loudly said “Pull your pants up little boy, your weenie is showing.”
I’m thirty years older than he was, it was absurd.
As for the quality of the conversation here, it has deteriorated beyond reclamation. Enough on this thread.
@Just looking. Sorry to hear about your experience. I have a friend who experienced something worse. As a child, a man on the crowded 7 subway groped her for what seemed like eternity while she was standing right next to her parents. She was too terrified and couldn’t speak for days.
However, this and other experiences has not stopped her from living her life.
Fear is good.But you need to come outside. you cannot let the fear of assault ruin and rule your life.I sincerely hope that you consider taking a few krav maga sessions. It builds confidence, focus,and is a good workout.
Sexual predators only understand violence and you need to stop playing the sacrificial dough eyed young lamb part.
Frankly, I’m pleased to know the police are interested in this as a crime. I never once even considered calling the police when sexual predators targeted me. It didn’t occur to me they would be interested in knowing about it or pursuing it as a crime.
Up until recently the whole category seemed more like a joke or at best an annoyance women just had to deal with. “What were you wearing?” “Were you out late?” “Well, be happy you are so attractive.” Or, “kick him,” “scream,” “carry a long hat pin,” were all responses I got over the years. No one ever suggested reporting it to the police.
I support a fairly new organization called “Hollaback,” which formed to combat street harassment, including verbal harassment. Check out their Facebook page.
The Police Department have a program called
Ride Along. I suggest if anyone wants to see what the
Police do all day, go for the ride . U sign a wavier & put on a police
Vest .
liz taylor is a resident of sunnyside!!?? Damn, sunnyside is heaven! um, except for that stretch of vacant stores on greenpoint ave and the pawn shops. otherwise, pretty cool place. glad to have you Liz
I think what a couple of people are trying to say is that in this day and age a woman is better off not calling too much attention to herself (of course, define “too much” – sometimes it is relative) because, unfortunately, the world is filled with creeps looking for potential targets. If I had a daughter I would be very afraid for her safety. I hope they catch this creep or creeps. As for the 108th, sometimes I wonder what they do all day besides say that there is “nothing they can do”.
@ Waiters If you were waitresses you might know what this story is about. In any case, all the best to all of you.
Don’t quit yours either, I require an errand boy to fill my water.
And bring me the check, I have an 8pm curtain.
Hopefully you do delivery so justlooking can eat. Otherwise the whole neighborhood might grab her on the way to the restaurant.
@Bitchier When someone like you comes into my restaurant I make sure to guide them towards the fish–brainfood–you missed absolutely everything that woman was talking about. Keep your day job, you are really good at making facile comments dopes laugh at. You must go over big with drunks. I just hope they don’t let you vote or anything important like that.
Has Crowley AKA The Tourist returned to Virginia?
So if you dress the part of a vamp you deserve it? What kind of backwards logic is that… and coming from a woman. Your experiences have nothing to do with your judgements on societal norms. Keep blaming everyone else for your problems. You are better off staying inside, I hope they cut off your internet connection soon.
How did this thread go from groping to pre-marital sex and gambling?
@ John K Do you think most men know how often these things happen to women? Do you think they care? And by the way, from my survey in recent years I think my experience is on the outer edge of frequency. Almost every woman I spoke with had at least one experience, many had several, but hardly any have experienced my level of abuse. I must unintentionally give off an almost tangible air of vulnerability because I certainly do not dress or act the part of a vamp. Quite the opposite, really. I’m told I can be almost quaint in my dress and manner.
And your comment about the men’s response is right on. After being shocked they sneer. Denial is first, of course, “Who? Me? It was an accident!” (They almost believe themselves, too.) Then, contempt, “What are you a prude?” That mostly came from men who I dated but didn’t want to sleep with.
In my lifetime I have seen a change from the assumption that it was wrong to sleep together before marriage to you should sleep with them by the third date. That is a sick slide into degradation. By the way in the same time period gambling became legal and it went from a lifelong shame to a feather in your cap to be photographed naked.
@ John K I’ve just read your post and I’m too broken by tears of relief–someone has heard me–to respond now. But, thank you. By the way, I’m Neighborhood Observer, too. You may understand why I use a screen name.
Just Looking,
There was another woman who posted here a story similar to yours; I believe she used the handle, “Neighborhood Observer”. Common to both of your stories was the description of how your very personalities were forever altered as a result of your having been abused. I would like to assure you that, in revealing your history, you have touched—and broken—the hearts of very many men; and, I believe, a majority of men.
As a man with 3 sisters, I’ve seen, over the years, great numbers of men verbally assaulting women in a sexual way. Sometimes, I would call the men out; and, of course, when their shock wore off (usually just a few seconds), they’d start angrily questioning my sexuality in the usual ways; I’m probably lucky I didn’t get hurt; but, I’m a relatively big guy; and, it may be that such perps tend to whither in the spotlight. I’m glad I did that those few times I did. I have a dear wife now; I am afraid for her.
But, Just Looking, I want to tell you that, while I’m proud of Mike Novak’s actions in coming to the aid of woman in peril; (and, he deserves all accolades) you deserve a great deal of credit, too, for the relentless way you have illuminated the price paid by those on the receiving end of this kind of abuse. I hope these posts you’ve made are the product of, or, have led to, your renewed empowerment. You are a Victor, not a victim. You are doing God’s work; and, I hope many Blessings flow your way.
If the groper were somebody parked on the wrong side of the street on alternate parking days, the city would be on him like white on rice.
i just want to know…if my wife is groped and i know the perps teeth down his throat…is that ok? im thinking self defense …or do i have to yell out im making a citizens arrest … seriously…lets say the victim pushes the perp in front of moving traffic as an end result of said groping…is the perp liable to more than the misdemeanor that the groper is subject to?
@ tupac wannabe Your comment is exactly the kind of people use to bring this very uncomfortable subject to an end: kind of funny, kind of stupid. And with that level of discourse from 98% of the population, sexual predators get away with their crimes and the abused are silenced, shamed and left alone to deal with the wounds. Very typical, very, very disappointing.
i will be groping myself locally tonight
“Groping” “mashing” “copping a feel,” are all euphemisms. They are battery. If someone touches another in an indecent way, breaking all social conventions, if not criminal code, it should not be guffawed, joshed, sniggered, chuffed or snorted away with a roll of the eyes. It is the destruction of the sovereignty of one’s body and obliteration of one’s right to be safe in the world.
Roxy,
Good question.
What do gropers get in other states such as Texas or Alabama? I don’t know?
I somehow don’t think it would be good for a man to go groping down that part of the country.
Captain O’Toole’s comments are infuriating!! “I just make the arrests”? Fantastic. Did he mention if he was planning on doing so anytime soon?
What about the “non-local” gropers? If I intended to grope someone, I would probably go to a area where I was less likely to be recognized by neighbors.
@ allow_me. . .
Everyone knows perfectly well many a touch is accidental. Women, too, accidentally brush up against people.
But many a touch are craftily purposeful. On a particularly crowded car one rainy morning I was most forgiving of the person whose umbrella handle was pressed into my thigh/buttock. But, darn it, as the ride wore on, it kept sliding closer to the center of my behind no matter how I moved away. Then, as the train doors opened I was able to turn around to see a broad satisfied grin on the man who had been maneuvering his “handle” against me the whole long ride under the river. Then, he was gone.
I still get sick to my stomach telling that story. He not only got what he wanted, he humiliated me with that knowing smile. If I saw him today I’d deck him.
You can be careful. I know much better than that.
“Uncontrollable impulses” – that is putting it mildly! Is there a connection between what happened in Woodside and what happened in Jackson Heights recently?
I’m all for punishing gropers but what is to prevent someone being charged with this offense who simply and involuntarily brushed up against a woman on a crowded subway train? Who here hasn’t been on a packed train and squashed against a multitude of strangers? Let’s be careful here.
@DKB Thank you for your compassion. I’ve gotten little of it up until now. Most people just find my refusal to go places alone or on public transportation quirky at best. So because of all that abuse I am further isolated. It is an endless cycle.
Just looking, that is so sad and my heart goes out to you. People who are capable of groping aren’t only sleazy, but capable of a lot more serious offenses. They should be punished accordingly.
That’s because we live in a society where media has fooled us into believing pornography is normal. Visually stimulated men with poor impulse control cross the line and believe it is okay, or “no big deal.” That’s what the men in my life told me when I finally said to them I couldn’t bear being alone in public anymore after years of such incidents. They obviously could not imagine being on the receiving end of such assaults.
It is devastating. After 30 years of those experiences I spend as little time as possible alone in public. I drive everywhere I go. Since taking to my car, I’ve only been assaulted once in ten years, whereas it pretty much was five times a decade until then.
We need a major public awareness campaign that lets men know touching the nearest appetizing body part is a crime punishable by a jail term and permanent “sexual offender” status. It might stop then.