Dec. 29, 2011 By Christian Murray
Several parents and educators have complained for years that Sunnyside and Woodside schools are overcrowded—filled with trailers that were once playgrounds.
However, that seemingly intractable problem may finally be changing. There have been a series of discussions that have taken place this week that are likely to lead to the expansion of P.S. 11 in Woodside, which is located at 54-25 Skillman Ave. Such an expansion, which looked implausible earlier this month, may also involve the purchase of land nearby to create another school.
Additionally, the construction of a new elementary school between 43rd and 44th Streets (between Queens Blvd and 47th Ave.) is on track, with 80% of the plans complete and a scheduled opening date of Sept. 2014.
Councilman Jimmy Van Bramer said he has been pushing the city hard for the creation or expansion of these schools. “P.S. 11 is about 120% capacity,” he said, adding that he had a meeting with the Lorraine Grillo, chief executive of the School Construction Authority, this morning, about schools in the district.
“We will know in a few weeks whether there will be an expansion to P.S. 11 or a new school,” Van Bramer said.
At a meeting early December, a number of parents from P.S. 11 were told by an official from the School Construction Authority that a long-planned expansion to that school would not take place.
Educators, students and parents pushed back hard, rattling off a list of woes — as they begged the city to do something about it.
P.S. 11 Principal Anna Efkarpides said that the school had a trailer that was about a decade ago that was falling apart. She said the trailer has had tiles fall on children. Furthermore, Efkarpides said she had a staff member who fell through the floor.
Van Bramer said that the initial expansion was cancelled since the engineers who investigated the location (the north eastern area of the site) said they couldn’t build there. “The engineers have been out on the school site this week to explore ways to see if there is another part of the site where an expansion can take place.”
Meanwhile, the new primary school to be located at 45-46 42nd Street is likely to alleviate school overcrowding at P.S. 199 (39-20 48th Ave.), which has been a sore point for local parents for some time, Van Bramer said.
The property, which runs from 42nd through to 43rd Street (between Queens Blvd and 47th Ave), is currently vacant land, and was once the site of the Sunnyside Jewish Center.
Meanwhile, Van Bramer said he is continuing to push the construction authority to invest funds in I.S. 125 (46-02 47 Ave.) where overcrowding is an issue at that school too.
School site (Photo: QueensPost)
Location of new school at 45-46 42nd St. (file art)[/caption]
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58 Comments
“Their bodies” – when you have had sex you have made a decision about your body. You, Amy, just don’t like the consequences of that act. It is obvious that you do not like children or think that poor women should have babies. Only rich girls like Amy should be allowed to breed, apparently. That is a classist position that you have. You have no sense of proportion either. Where there is life, there is hope except in Amy World.
What’s moral is allowing women to make their own decisions about their own bodies. No one forces women to get abortions. No one who doesn’t want one has to get one. But I think it should remain an option for those who would choose it.
I think it is you who dislikes poor women, since you would rather not allow them to make their own decisions about their own bodies and families.
Amy and Bart, you have no moral arguments – you obviously dislike poor women and poor children and want them out of your lives. Sad. And you are incredibly smug.
E.A.B., Raquel just wants people to suffer so she can feel smug about what a perfect life she’s led.
And if suffering is an unavoidable part of life, I guess Raquel should never go to a doctor if she feels sick.
Suffering is a possible part of life, but not a necessary part of life. I don’t know what compels you to think that. I don’t recall a single episode of my life that I would classify as severely as suffering. I’ve never endured a struggle anything like what having a baby in poverty must be like, and I don’t think women in poverty should be forced to carry a pregnancy to term just to worsen her own suffering and introduce a new life to suffering.
It’s not only disreputable people who drug and drink that think suffering can be avoided. You’re again trying to create a nonsense correlation between something universally considered wrong (e.g., being an alcoholic, being a racist) and something unrelated that you disagree with. It’s not very effective, especially when it’s so transparent.
Great art has come out of suffering in some cases, but are you saying you’d rather torture someone than let them live a happy life just to get great art out of them? You’re not a great artist, so you can’t really speak on their behalf. Not to mention there are many more people who suffer in the world than there are famous artists.
Your last two sentences only prove that you’ve become a caricature of yourself.
Mr. Bart, suffering is part of life. People who drug and drink think they can block out suffering. Geeze, some of the greatest artists in the history of the world have “suffered”. I guess you want a suffer free life – good luck with that one! Sorry, no do overs when you make a baby. Try bringing back to Saks that dress you tried on and stained!
“As for Mr. Bartholomew, there is no ‘right reason’ for having an abortion. All the reasons are wrong: it comes down to convenience.”
All reasons? What about having a form of contraception fail (e.g., condom breaking)? What about being raped? Even having a child in poverty can cause a lot of suffering. Is it merely convenient not to suffer?
I think the great deal of the disagreements here stem from the fact that some people can’t imagine that others do not want children. Some people are childless by choice.
“Pursue careers” – and when you are old and realize the baby train has left the station, it will be too late! So sad about those babies you chose not to bring to term because of the “great career”. So sad that you will have no children to care for you and when you are old.
“Long term damage to her economic prospects.” My father, a child of the depression, would disagree with you, Amy! I guess black women don’t love their babies, is what you are saying. As for Mr. Bartholomew, there is no “right reason” for having an abortion. All the reasons are wrong: it comes down to convenience. Raquel is right: when a woman has had multiple abortions something very nasty is going on. This is a form of self-mutilation. And I think that at some point, society must step in. BTW, Amy: you can buy rubbers at the Korean deli! They are sold everywhere. And they are cheap. Stop the excuses. And, by the way, this malarky about women dying in back alley abortions is, for the most part, an urban myth. Women who self aborted died because of the lack of penicillin and other antibiotics, which now exist. No offense, Amy, but you sound kind of selfish.
“Let’s assume that some people do see abortion as their only form of birth control for whatever reason (lack of education, poor mentoring, societal influences, etc.)”
Or let’s not. I really have a hard time believing anyone considers abortion to be a primary form of birth control. Having an abortion is not exactly the most pleasant experience in the world. I don’t think it’s an operation that women want to have performed repeatedly.
Regarding the higher abortion rate among black women–could it be because poverty rates are much higher among black women? Women in poverty might disproportionately choose to abort because they know they can’t afford to have a child. Additionally, women in poverty are much less likely to have health insurance, which impedes their access to affordable birth control prescriptions. Women who are unable to regularly afford birth control pills have to make do with forms of birth control that have higher failure rates, which may lead to more unwanted pregnancies and more abortions.
“BTW: many young, single women are unaware of the fact that they absolutely have a right to child support.”
Child support is not able to repair the economic disadvantages that single mothers have. It makes it much more difficult for women to pursue careers that are personally and financially rewarding. Why would a woman who does not want a child opt to carry her pregnancy to term, knowing the long-term damage that would do to her economic prospects?
I would like to read about your facts if you would cite them.
Let’s assume that some people do see abortion as their only form of birth control for whatever reason (lack of education, poor mentoring, societal influences, etc.) — you think it should be abolished for everyone, even those who wants to use it for better reasons than negligence, just because you disagree with how some people use it? Should we abolish psychiatric drugs because some people abuse them? Should we abolish religion because some priests molest children? Should be abolish water because some people drown in it?
I don’t see why people who get abortions because of irresponsible behavior should be denied access to the service, anyway. The women you’re talking about aren’t getting pregnant because abortion exists, and they won’t stop getting abortions if it’s made illegal — they’ll just get them at illegal abortion clinics like they do in India. Or they’ll end up killing themselves trying to do it on their own. Or they’ll have babies that won’t be supported or loved.
Mr. Bartholomew, we have had sex ed for decades – along with free contraception, including in the New York City public schools. What has the result been? It is obvious that people know about birth control but choose not to practice it because they see abortion as a form of birth control. About 45% of the abortions in NYC are SECOND abortions. Now, you might argue that anybody can make a mistake. But when it becomes the second, third, fourth, or tenth abortion, this is pathological and self-destructive behavior. There are many sociologists who believe that the contraceptive mentality – “Oh, I practiced birth control and it didn’t work so therefore I am entitled to a do over” – is what has led to the high abortion rate as well as the ability of men to skirt their legal and moral responsibility towards the women in their lives. BTW: many young, single women are unaware of the fact that they absolutely have a right to child support. It is a fact that abortion clinics, most of which are located in poorer areas, target minority women. They also take the elitist attitude that poor women are incapable of loving their children, “poor” being defined as not having more than one I-Pad. It is also a fact that most relationships will end after an abortion. It is difficult to go about one’s life, knowing that the boyfriend who has sworn love, has encouraged you to destroy your child.
“Black women disproportionately abort. They are 12% of the population yet 30% of abortions.”
This reminds me of a comment a racist teacher of mine once brought up in class for no good reason. Something like “Black people account for 12% of the population, but account for 55% of police stops” and framed it as if it was because black people break the law more often. I said the disparity is probably because police are racist. I think I probably got detention.
Also, I think I’d like us to share our thoughts without bringing up an esoteric historical figure’s political views and affiliations. Seems irrelevant.
Of course, the best choice, if it’s an option, is to avoid getting pregnant by using whatever kind of contraception you want or abstinence. But condoms break, people make mistakes, women get raped, and plenty of other things happen that make abortion a reasonable choice for the better. To pretend these situations don’t exist is ignorant. Eliminating the solution does not eliminate the problem.
And why is abortion accepted as a form of birth control? Just because it exists? It’s because of poor education, because nobody cares to allocate proper funds to giving underprivileged children a chance. (Like how I brought it back to the actual topic here? I do.)
How does abortion allow men to abandon women? You say it like a man never abandoned his children. What reason would a man have to leave a woman who is aborting a child that she or neither or them wants? And if the woman wants an abortion but the man doesn’t, they obviously have very different ideas about where they want their relationship to go and probably shouldn’t be together.
You’re trying to argue that abortion is bad because its existence alone creates a hypothetical situation in which a woman feels she has no choice but to abort. It’s nonsense. Abortion is what allows the choice. Take that away and there is no choice at all. Which is why “pro-lifers” are opposed to “pro-choice.”
Abortion allows men to abandon their women and their children with little legal or moral consequence. “My body, my choice” has led to MY problems without any help from the man who is a party to this. It has led to the feminization of poverty as more often than not, men fly the coop leaving the woman to fend for herself because, after all, she had the “choice of abortion”. I give for example, the fact that many of the women who abort also choose to have children – alone. Again, my body, my choice, my problem, my poverty – goodby men who support their women and their children. After all, she had the “choice” to abort. Her problem – alone – if she did not. It has also led to the lower marital rates in the minority community because again, men are let off the hook of taking care of their women and their children. The pool of eligible marital men has shrunk. BTW: Margaret Sanger had a nice correspondence going with members of the Nazi party prior to WWII. She admired their eugenics program. Black women disproportionately abort. They are 12% of the population yet 30% of abortions. In NYC the statistics are even worse as 41% of pregnancies end in abortion. And it is not because of lack of knowledge of birth control. It is because it is accepted as a form of birth control. Having said that, I think that adoption is a beautiful thing and should be encouraged. This thread was about overcrowded schools but somebody started ranting about illegal immigrants and large families!
I suppose it doesn’t matter what Margaret Sanger’s personal beliefs were, since plenty of people who aren’t bigots use abortion to sustain the quality of their lives, or to live their lives the way they want to. You’re confusing someone’s personal politics with a service to which they’re irrelevant. It’s like saying Aristotle’s writings on physics were meant to serve the interest of pederasty, or that Thomas Edison invented the lightbulb so that he could ransack his competitors’ houses at night. It’s irresponsible to imply that anyone who wants to get an abortion is a racist.
Losing a child can be heartbreaking if you want one. Having a child can be heartbreaking if you don’t want one. Try to imagine both sides of the situation. In any event, letting parents do what they want to do is not going to be heartbreaking for anyone. People here aren’t forced to have abortions they don’t want to have.
I never mentioned parents consenting to their children’s abortions. I haven’t thought about that issue enough to have an opinion, though my gut tells me people should be able to decide to do with their bodies whatever they want to do as long as it doesn’t harm others.
Who says a man has no say in the matter of abortion? Plenty of women likely allow or want their partner to have a say. As for the women who do what they want no matter what the potential father wants, it’s their bodies and their lives, and the women are the ones expected by society to raise the child even in the absence of a man. So women should get the final say because they’re the ones having the babies (or not), thanks to biology. A man’s life won’t necessarily be altered or ruined if he gets a woman pregnant, and it won’t be altered or ruined if the woman has an abortion.
Just think about why people get abortions. Use your imagination. It’s not because two people who love each other want to have a child but are convinced by Margaret Sanger to kill their baby against their will.
E.A. Bart: Planned Parenthood was started by a eugenicist, Margaret Sanger, who hated new immigrants (Italians and Jews) and later on Hispanics and blacks whom she compared to “weeds”. Losing a child is heartbreaking, not having one! New York does not have a parental consent law, by the way. I am grading your response. Isn’t it sexist that a MAN HAS NO SAY IN THE MATTER? Think carefully before you answer.
“A lot of lib sexists on this thread. Abortionists target minority babies. And abortion breaks hearts.”
Wouldn’t taking away a woman’s right to choose be considered sexist? Who are these mysterious people targeting other people’s babies? Don’t the potential parents have a say in whether or not they get an abortion? Why would abortionists/liberals try to kill minority babies if Democrats are the minority party? Wouldn’t having a baby you don’t want break your heart?
Take your time. You will be graded.
TRUTH!
You wrote, “How many times do I have to hold my tongue when I see a family of 5 or 6 walking down the street.”
Do you feel that way when you see the white families with 5-6-7-8 kids?
Or do automatically assume that they are here legally because they are white?
How about posting with your real name….and tell the “truth”!
Why do you feel like you have to hide behind a fake name?
What do you have to hide?
Mainline Florida,
So the Republican bankers had nothing to do with it?
So George Bush, then man who took over America with a balanced budget and a surplus and turned it into a the greatest deficit (VIA SPENDING ON NEEDLESS WARS AND LIES) had nothing to with it?
THE REPUBLICANS HAVE RUNIED AMERICA WHILE MAKING THEMSELVES RICH.
You all open wide and swallow their bullshit because they are WHITE. They pander to HATE and PREJUDICE and you all all to eager to blame everyone else but them.
“Truth” considers himself a liberal and yet he hates new immigrants and large families! What an irony.
Truth
“Look at the economic divide between the gardens and the rest of Sunnyside/Woodside.”
Wow, that’s not a very nice thing to say. I like the South side. May be you just don’t know many people over here?
“How many times do I have to hold my tongue when I see a family of 5 or 6 walking down the street”
You realize people were saying the exact same thing about the Irish immigrants 100 years ago and Italian immigrants 70 years ago….
In my opinion, the public schools in this neighborhood are not where I want to send my (future) children. I will probably have them attend private school which is not ideal as I grew up in the PS system and would like the same for my kids.
You hit it 100% Truth , grew up in Sunnyside and been in Florida for 24 yrs – the whole contry has gone to garbage and it will never come back. Liberals has destoyed our once great country. I have one child beacuse I couldn’t afford anymore. We all used to have good insurance but now it sucks because WE TAXPAYERS have to pay for all the garbage to keep multiplying… THE COUNTRY IS IN A TAILSPIN FOLKS, JUST LOOK AROUND, ITS EASY TO SEE WHY.
“Chimps in the zoo” – somebody really does not like his own kids very much! I feel sorry for them and for the mother.
Seems that a lot of “libs” have a very high opinion of their drug addled kids who will go on to become loafers while immigrant kids will succeed, overcrowded schools or not. People take classes in large lecture halls in college – they learn anyway.
A lot of lib sexists on this thread. Abortionists target minority babies. And abortion breaks hearts. Overcrowding is because there are more families in a limited space. Period. This has nothing to do with race. Raquel is a fox, by the way. Happy New Year.
Wow, had no idea the neighborhood was so conservative. Abortion isn’t around to keep the schools from becoming overpopulated. It’s to help people who don’t want children from having them. Abortion was brought into this discussion rather sloppily to throw some partisan sand into people’s eyes. I see what he/she meant about conservative hypocrisy, but it’s irrelevant to the topic at hand.
It’s also really inappropriate to assume the school population problem is due to immigrants, illegal or not. Show us the facts, and we’ll have that conversation. But what’s the point of getting worked up over an obviously presumptive comment like that? Some people are going to be ignorant no matter what we say.
The fact is that there is not enough room and aren’t enough teachers in these schools to provide the children of our neighborhood a good education. This is not a problem isolated in Sunnyside, either. Not sure if anyone noticed, but the population of the world is increasing rapidly, and the population of urban areas is growing even faster. It’s a good thing these expansions are in the works. Then we’ll just need some good, dedicated teachers to fill in the gaps.
raquel needs a man
plesae get a life all of u,go out smell the flowers,life does not end just because u do not leave ur apartment!!
Am I alone in finding the comments more interesting to read than the story itself?
“Truth” I love the quote “in nice areas with respectable people.” The kids at Dalton send their chauffeurs uptown to buy drugs for them. Loyola Prep? The tuition is expensive so some of their students are criminals. Same thing for Christ the King and McClancy. There are lots of good kids in the public schools and criminals in the private ones. And the ones in the private schools are worse because they think they are clever.
Truth sounds like a confused liberal. He claims to care about people but supports aborting their children! We can do without that kind of love which smacks of eugenics. Getting back to overcrowded schools . . . the demographics of the area are changing and several parochial schools have closed as a result. There are empty lots and empty stores which could be rented out by the board of ed for several class rooms.
Note that it is the liberals such as “Truth” who are into social engineering and who believe that poor women do not love their babies. In their world, only the wealthy deserve to live. And the young. Who are the real racists? Guess.
“Chimps in the zoo” – to quote from Dr. Seuss, “A person is a person no matter how small.” You are all heart! There are countries, such as Russia, which are losing population. “The lessons of Jesus and God do not equate to good moral character either.” I guess you prefer the moral lessons of a Stalin or a Castro. You are really all heart. I am against women being ripped off by thoughtless men. How does that grab you? The moral of “Truth” – kill sooner rather than later to avoid possible misery. Nice lesson!
“Abortion is terrible – it is the taking of an innocent life for the sake of convenience.”
Oh Jesus, where to begin. We have enough miserable people on this Earth already. And you meant innocent HUMAN life because you destroy innocent life on this planet every day and don’t seem to care.
Humanity doesn’t need to continue at it’s current rate. We are biologically engineered to procreate, yet there are not enough resources available to make life worth living.
There are chimps in the zoo who have more feelings than a fetus could ever have, yet you see no injustice in that. And if you do, you certainly aren’t campaigning for their release. How many hypocritical situations do I have to point out?
The lessons of Jesus and God do not equate to good moral character either.
I thought that plans for the school between 42nd and 43rd Street had been scrapped. How much did the City pay for the land? The owner who purchased the property from the temple had intended to build a condominium apartment building, but changed his mind due to the economic recession.
Abortion is terrible – it is the taking of an innocent life for the sake of convenience. Several parochial schools in the area closed – wasn’t the Board of Ed supposed to rent those spaces? And what does it say about Woodside/Sunnyside that St. Teresa and Queens of Angels are closed? The education at PS 11 is excellent. Same for P.S.150. They just happen to be overcrowded. There is a vacant lot near the Starbucks on Queens Boulevard. Why doesn’t the Board of Ed build there? I wish people would leave race out of this. As for the kids in Sunnyside Gardens, you know what I think of them – I think that some of them are real low lives who know how to game the system because of their parents. Not all that glitters is gold. Money does not buy good moral character.
FYI I consider myself a fierce liberal. Food for thought for everyone.
Gee whiz, just mention the term illegal immigrant and the liberals automatically assign race to the issue. Tell me liberals, what race are illegal immigrants? Mike Novak, take the hate card and wipe your butt with it you pompous, self-righteous, ignorant fool.
How am I racist without mentioning a specific race? Are you serious?
Do you think that illegals just means mexicans? Then you are racist.
I don’t like people who don’t follow the law.
Get it?
I think Abortion is necessary and I don’t believe in fairy tales.
Too bad she was’t good enough for Sty.
And I hate criminals, liars, and prejudice people. I hope you do to. Anyone here illegally is two of those.
So grow up.
Lennys_pizza_sux…do you mean ALL illegals? Or just the ones who are not white? 😉
The only racism coming out of this thread is people assuming illegals means children with yellow and brown skin.
Notice that no one has associated the work illegals with anyone from any denomination: white, brown, yellow, or otherwise.
And you better believe there are plenty of freeloading illegals that are white.
Truth said….”Stop having children you can’t take care of”.
I have to ask you a question, “Truth”… are you a Catholic or one of those Christian fundamentalists who are “anti-birth control” or “anti-abortion?
If you are, then you are hypocrite under God as well as a racist hater.
For many years, PS 150 and PS 11 were the number one and two schools in District 30. And as a former PTA President at PS 150, I can tell you, “Truth”, that HATE, LIES and PREJUDICE are taught in the HOME by people like YOU.
My daughter went to PS 150 and is now in the Bronx High School of Science.
The education she received was excellent, and she is not a hater. People form all countries are welcomed in my house. I have nothing to fear from them, and I do not blame my own problems on anyone else, like the haters do.
I have a much cheaper solution… School Vouchers. Not only will it save on construction costs, it also saves on tuition since it cost twice as much to put a kid into a public school.
Actually the majority of these children are wonderful.
I guess its difficult for you to see– because you can’t see beneath the yellow and brown skin of these kids.
I’m done with this conversation
Then the schools would be overflowing with wonderful kids and families who want to contribute to society.
Oh wait.
Fool is correct. But it’s still an issue that people love to breeze over instead of addressing it. Instead of finding out what’s wrong, look at the schools in the city that are flourishing. Take a deeper look into the student body and the politics behind those schools. Not saying its fair, but the schools that succeed have a lot in common. Read between the lines.
Anyway most of these local schools are beyond repair, everyone has known that for a long time.
Truth,
You are clueless. Have you ever been inside these schools and met the teachers and students? I doubt it.
These kids are as ambitious as any other child. Their parents are often small-business owners who work hard (probably harder than you).
To categorize them as all a bunch of illegal immigrants leeches is not only racist– it’s classless.
Ha yes, then who would pay for all the freebies these losers get? My parents had the decency to raise me correctly. Save money, work hard, and not suck the system dry. All of these children and their parents are leeches. I take care of myself and my own. I am not paying for your mistakes.
If you want to rally for a group of lost causes, be my guest.
Take a walk by any of these schools and look at the demographics. They speak for themselves. Everyone I know in the Gardens was farmed out to schools in Manhattan. In nice areas with respectable people.
Serious question though, why do you think we are wrong? What bothers you about our opinions?
Lenny (Pizza),
There are a lot of schools in non-immigrant areas that are falling apart. Have you looked in Brooklyn or the Bronx lately?
And not all these kids have 5 brothers and 5 sisters. So this is problem goes far deeper than illegal immigrants.
JH,
They can have all the kids they want – in their own country.
It’s a pity that the above two posters’ respective parents didn’t share their views and refrain from having children as well.
Finally someone tells the truth. And let’s play devil’s advocate, just remove illegal and it’s still true. Look at the economic divide between the gardens and the rest of Sunnyside/Woodside. It’s crystal clear. Stop having children you can’t take care of. How many times do I have to hold my tongue when I see a family of 5 or 6 walking down the street. Never with nice clothes or any indication that the family has enough money to make ends meet. Cut to the Upper East or West in Manhattan and you never see this foolishness. Poor kids.
I’ll bet there wouldn’t be so much overcrowding if the illegal immigrant population wasn’t so huge.